Nino Introduction

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Vagabond
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Re: Nino Introduction

Post by Vagabond » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:54 am

I see no reason why front loaded overhead presses would be bad for the shoulders in people with good shoulder mobility and stability. That guy is very strong and knowledgeable, but I'm having a really hard time with claims that such or such movement is always categorically bad. Claims like that tend to be bullshit. And yes, the truth is... Flexible. Most core concepts are probably quite accurate tho.

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Re: Nino Introduction

Post by Nino » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:51 am

Sorry for my absence in responding back. Thanks everyone for so much feedback , and even additional info! I enjoyed all of it and got lots of cool ideas from you. I am wondering in the same regards, what are the best Push based exercises I should be doing for strength development? I am making a new workout program right now for myself and I hope to share it with y'all for your critique and advise once I finished it. I've never done a bench press before, sticking to more traditional calisthenics based movements, but i recently read that bench press is best push exercise for developing push strength.. Now I'm considering if I should incorporate this into my routine.

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Re: Nino Introduction

Post by Vagabond » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:39 pm

There list is long. But here's some of the main ones, for me.

-Overhead presses and variations thereof, as appropriate. Just strict military presses are really good, so are seated presses. Using dumbbells instead can help focus more on the shoulders and less the triceps, can help balance each side more evenly (if you're careful) and can help push at angles that you can't with a barbell. Haven't used them tho, because I don't have heavy enough dumbbells. But I did one armed barbell presses before. I prefer regular military presses or Z-presses tho.
-Handstand push-ups.
-Bench press and variations thereof, with slight angle variations. I would stick to a flat bench and develop good technique (no elbows flaring, work on getting a good path. Using an arch or leg drive can help pressing more, and arching can help get a better shoulder angle on top of shortening the range slightly).
-Weighted dips. One of my favourite.
-Weighted push-ups. Great exercise, can be easier on the shoulders than bench or dips. Can be done using a dip belt, or a person laying or sitting on you.
-One arm push-ups. Their difficulty can be modulated by elevating or lowering the hand. Practising one arm diamond push-ups (regulation perfect one arm push-up) using elevated hands and progressively going lower is excellent for the triceps. One arm push-ups are very useful when you don't have access to weights.

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Re: Nino Introduction

Post by Against Gravity » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:12 pm

Yeah, you'll probably have to choose, but the basics for upper body are:

Overhead pressing:
- HSPU or OHP.

HSPU is cooler, and more friendly on the joints. However, I've found OHP (for higher volume & frequency) it's better for hypertrophy, as long as you take care of your technique to avoid impingement or other issues. In my case, I'd do both to get the best of both worlds

Horizontal pushing
- Weighted dips or bench press variations

I don't like bench pressing. It requires more equipment (like a bench / squat rack), and it's the only exercise that could actually kill you if things go wrong with a very heavy load. Also, it's very easy to end up falling in ego-lifting, since there's a lot of people 'competing' to be the best ('how much do you bench press?'). That means bad form, injuries and frustration. Anyway, I think weighted dips hit chest better, due to the way the chest fibers are oriented. And when done for high reps, they surely kill the triceps. Coupled with pseudoplanche push-ups / weighted push-ups they'd be very complete. Bench press is inferior in this aspect as well, since you can't protract your scapula (serratus anterior gets weaker, potentially leading to muscle imbalances). So I'd definitely choose dips over bench press.

Vertical pulling - weighted pull-ups or OAC variations. The latter is cooler, but I think weighted pull-ups are best to build strength, since you can manipulate load more easily and objectively, especially for 5+ RM sets. So, I'd get a good pulling strength base through weighted pull-ups first, and then add OAC, if desired.

Horizontal pulling - weighted BW rows / FL rows or BB rows. I've found BB rows are better for hypertrophy on upper back. I think the reason is legs are used synergistically to bring the bar up against chest, which means a higher load overall. On FL / weighted rows, when it gets too heavy, you get 'stuck' in the middle part of the ROM, thus you cant get as much mechanical tension on upper back (just on lats). Still, you can do both - BB rows for the hypertrophy aspect, and FL holds for the cool aspect of the skill.


By the way, what are the goals you'd like to achieve?
Last edited by Against Gravity on Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:00 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Nino Introduction

Post by Against Gravity » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:21 pm

Vagabond wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:39 pm
-One arm push-ups. Their difficulty can be modulated by elevating or lowering the hand. Practising one arm diamond push-ups (regulation perfect one arm push-up) using elevated hands and progressively going lower is excellent for the triceps. One arm push-ups are very useful when you don't have access to weights.
I miss doing this exercise. I agree that it's probably the best tricep exercise considering benefit vs resources needed.

I remember you said you were very close to achieve it as well. It would be cool to create post for a challenge: trying to get as close as possible (objectively) to a diamond OA pushup (feet together, no body twist). Sadly, there's not enough people to join, so we'll have to wait

But it would be interesting, for sure. There's a few methods to make it objectively, like using more inclined / declined surfaces. I remember I could easily do it in the wall, but at around a chair height I start to feel the urge to lift my opposite leg, using a OA OL push-up variation instead. And when trying it in the floor, I just didn't know how to properly rotate the shoulder to initiate the eccentric motion, it seemed like the shoulder and elbow was going to break if I tried (unless I twisted the body). Also, I remember using a belt on ankles to adjust feet width / stance objectively. But I always ended up either having a wrist injury (didn't properly shift weight over my hand) or doing the one armed-one legged variation (I thought that overall load was the same so I gave up the 'diamond, strict' push-up.)

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Re: Nino Introduction

Post by Vagabond » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:27 pm

Ah, yeah, that damn push-up is hard, ha ha. To not have to twist, you have to place the load at the right place over your hand. If you do so, you shouldn't feel much of an urge to twist at all - provided your triceps are strong enough to control it. I started doing it again, btw! Quite far right now tho, since it's been so many years. But I'll built it back, slowly but surely.