Some resources for movements and exercise setups

Let's build a solid resource everyone will benefit from by making an exhaustive list of movements and compiling information on every one of those movements.
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Vagabond
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Re: Some resources for movements and exercise setups

Post by Vagabond » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:38 am

Against Gravity wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:34 am Definitely. Unless triceps were the weakest link on any of the main exercises, it doesn't make much sense to train it.
Exactly, unless you train it for its own sake (that's why I was training it, but by the time I had it pretty well my one arm dips were also pretty good, and I had not even trained them).

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Re: Some resources for movements and exercise setups

Post by Against Gravity » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:43 am

Vagabond wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:38 am
Against Gravity wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:34 am Definitely. Unless triceps were the weakest link on any of the main exercises, it doesn't make much sense to train it.
Exactly, unless you train it for its own sake (that's why I was training it, but by the time I had it pretty well my one arm dips were also pretty good, and I had not even trained them).
What I've never seen, though, is the inverted rowing equivalent of a one arm crossed push-up. I trained this movement for a while as well, but keeping shoulders totally parallel to each other and performing a full ROM repetition seemed impossible. It's like elbow flexion feels 'locked' at about 90º; and the only way to complete the rep is through twisting the torso;


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Massimo Kokhno
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Re: Some resources for movements and exercise setups

Post by Massimo Kokhno » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:49 pm

That row's top position reminds me of Matteo's one arm front lever touch hold:
Click to show or hide
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq3YrZsWae0[/media]
And on a bar Marco Ferenandez can do a lot of one arm feet together rows even when fatigued, he said he can do better form when fresh, here is his fatigued form:
Click to show or hide
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAqm-cr6li0[/media]

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Re: Some resources for movements and exercise setups

Post by Vagabond » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:27 pm

For a while, I did a ton of one arm interved rows when I was a gymnast, too. I liked them a lot. But I've never thought of doing them the same as the perfect one arm push-up. I honestly don't think there would be much value of trying to make it more biceps dominant vs doing bodyweight biceps curl variations such as elevators on rings or Hefestos. But it's cool to try to figure it out just for curiosity's sake.

Edit: I just tried to do one legs together (didn't try to do it "perfect"), and it was quite easy. Then I just tried doing a "perfect" one using a ring. Here's the interesting thing: yeah, it's a lot more biceps dominant than a regular one arm inverted row. However, the position of the hand and arm isn't the same as in the one arm push-up. Having the hand more across the chest actually makes you twist a lot more. But bringing the fist closer to the armpit makes you go back straighter again. Also, I wouldn't say it's easy, as it is not, but it's definitely NOT in the same league as the one arm diamond push-up. I feel like I could train it only a little bit and get it. Hint: to fix the form progressively, hold the top position and shift your weight until your shoulders square up. I'm not claiming to have it perfectly, because I don't. But I feel like once someone figures out the balance at the top and can hold it for a couple seconds like that, getting into it should become a lot smoother.

This was my quick attempt just to see how I could make it square.
Click to show or hide
[media]https://youtu.be/iCQoOtTWZyM[/media]
Edit 100: I believe a ring is sorta necessary to do a square one arm inverted row. I think a bar would prevent the proper angle for the wrist (my wrist doesn't bend that far at least), forcing the whole body to twist. You could do it with the bar in the same axis as your body to get a better grip, but then you have to avoid the bar with your your face.

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Re: Some resources for movements and exercise setups

Post by Against Gravity » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:51 am

That row's top position reminds me of Matteo's one arm front lever touch hold:
Click to show or hide
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq3YrZsWae0[/media]
That one arm front lever touch hold is impressive. I bet it's totally impossible to keep the body 'square' in that position, though. I see no way to resist the torque with the hand-ring tiny point of contact. Theoretically, with a rock-solid whole body tension it could be possible, but I doubt that level of tension is within human reach.
Vagabond wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:27 pm For a while, I did a ton of one arm interved rows when I was a gymnast, too. I liked them a lot. But I've never thought of doing them the same as the perfect one arm push-up. I honestly don't think there would be much value of trying to make it more biceps dominant vs doing bodyweight biceps curl variations such as elevators on rings or Hefestos. But it's cool to try to figure it out just for curiosity's sake.
Even if there's better BW exercises for bicep emphasis, it's good to know that one arm perfect rows and one arm perfect push-ups could be great tools when combined together for arms muscles strength focus - just as planche push-ups and front lever rows may be, I guess, great for upper body muscles strength emphasis.

I wonder if full ROM FL rows are highly dependant of biceps strength as well, considering that the 'locked' 90º angle elbow flexion when trying to do a full ROM FL row is similar to the feeling of 'locked' 90º elbow flexion' on one arm rows (that forces to twist the body to complete the rep)

Edit: I just tried to do one legs together (didn't try to do it "perfect"), and it was quite easy. Then I just tried doing a "perfect" one using a ring. Here's the interesting thing: yeah, it's a lot more biceps dominant than a regular one arm inverted row. However, the position of the hand and arm isn't the same as in the one arm push-up. Having the hand more across the chest actually makes you twist a lot more. But bringing the fist closer to the armpit makes you go back straighter again. Also, I wouldn't say it's easy, as it is not, but it's definitely NOT in the same league as the one arm diamond push-up. I feel like I could train it only a little bit and get it. Hint: to fix the form progressively, hold the top position and shift your weight until your shoulders square up. I'm not claiming to have it perfectly, because I don't. But I feel like once someone figures out the balance at the top and can hold it for a couple seconds like that, getting into it should become a lot smoother.
That's very curious. At least theoretically, having the arm closer to the midline should reduce the torque.
For the top hold, I bet elastic bands would help to 'feel' the required tension to maintain a 'square' position. And then it's all about strengthening that position just by reducing the amount of bands.

Edit 100: I believe a ring is sorta necessary to do a square one arm inverted row. I think a bar would prevent the proper angle for the wrist (my wrist doesn't bend that far at least), forcing the whole body to twist. You could do it with the bar in the same axis as your body to get a better grip, but then you have to avoid the bar with your your face.

I've always done one arm rows on rings as well, but I never really felt upper back working that much. This is one of the main reasons I started with bent over rows.

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Re: Some resources for movements and exercise setups

Post by Vagabond » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:52 am

For front lever pull-ups, no, they are not very dependent of biceps. The difficult part is not to bend your elbows, but to keep pulling the var towards your hips. That's a highly disadvantaged position that's getting close to a Victorian.

As for the midline thing in the one arm rows, I initially thought so too, but I noticed when I tried that the body is twisting because it's easier to do one arm rows pulling your arm in using your chest, which makes your whole torso rotate (the hand is fixed, and something has to move. Since the feet are together, they can't brace enough to prevent the movement, so the opposite shoulder turns in towards the pulling hand). So to me the solution is to bring the pulling hand more to its own side and have more weight away from it to help it untwist. I might actually play with it more in the future, because I'm curious. Won't use bands or anything, I'll just adjust the height of the ring and put a plate down so my feet don't slide.

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Re: Some resources for movements and exercise setups

Post by Against Gravity » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:24 am

Interesting!
Vagabond wrote: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:52 am I might actually play with it more in the future, because I'm curious. Won't use bands or anything, I'll just adjust the height of the ring and put a plate down so my feet don't slide.
Keep us informed if you finally manage to perform a 'square' one arm row!

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Re: Some resources for movements and exercise setups

Post by Vagabond » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:08 am

Will do! I really think I'll go the route of trying to hold the isometric position. I've also tried the one Matteo does (one arm front lever pull-up/one arm bent front meat hook mix), and it's much harder, I couldn't even hold it. That one will require a more dedicated approach for sure, but I really liked the sensation it created in my lats (like it hit them at an angle I normally never work on).